The Cupboard is Not Stocked, Who has the best young players? Options

[Southern_Canuck]

The Cupboard is Not Stocked:

With some people claiming that “Nonis left the prospect cupboard stocked”, I decided to have an in-depth look at Vancouver’s prospects vs. the rest of the league.

The news was not good.

I follow Canuck prospects closely, and am somewhat biased, but even I have to admit that Vancouver ranks in the bottom third of the league for young talent. Still. It makes me wonder where I would have ranked them before Nonis and Co. started to build things back up?

Let’s make this a poll --- Who has the best young talent in the league? I have put the top 15 teams (from my perspective) in the poll – if you disagree, or think that I have missed something, let me know!

As it turns out, the Canucks are well below average in young talent. In fact, I’d rank Vancouver above only Calgary, Dallas, NYI, NYR, St. Louis, Tampa Bay, and Toronto --- so 23rd out of 30 teams.

The talented teams fall into two basic categories: 1) a few elite players (eg. Pittsburgh, Anaheim, Washington, or Carolina), or 2) a big pile of outstanding prospects (eg. Edmonton, Chicago, or Phoenix)

Note: I decided to have an arbitrary age limit for this thread of 27 years old to begin the 2007/08 season.

So let’s talk about the Canucks’ prospects:

At forward, you have a proven and outstanding NHLer Ryan Kesler, who impressively scored 21 goals and was +1 over a season playing against other teams’ top lines. The drop off in young forward talent is immense down to Taylor Pyatt who is a marginal top 6 forward, who is good when he shows up to play, but always leaves you wanting more grit and toughness. Mason Raymond hasn’t established himself yet, but has blazing speed, and soft hands – along with his getting pushed around in the tough traffic areas.
Who else? On the offensive side, you have marginal NHLer Ryan Shannon, speedy scorer Michael Grabner 20, two-way capable, but inconsistent Jannik Hansen 22, long term project Patrick White 19, and possible diamond in the rough Dan Gendur 20. On the bottom six side, you have PK and shut-down pest Alex Burrows, speedy, tough Mike Brown, marginal NHLers Rick Rypien, and Jason Jaffray.

When you look at other teams, it is depressing to see that a lot of teams have a Getzlaf, Perry, Kovalchuk, P. Bergeron, Kessell, Vanek, Pominville, E. Staal, Toews, Kane, Stastny, Nash, B. Richards, Hemsky, Gagner, Horton, Kopitar, Gaborik, A. Kostitsyn, Higgins, Radulov, Parise, Zajac, Heatley, Spezza, J. Carter, M. Richards, Mueller, Hanzal, Crosby, Malkin, Backstrom, or Ovechkin type of player. The Canucks do not.

On defence, the Canucks look pretty good in the prospect department. You have super rookie Alex Edler, tough but talented Kevin Bieksa, smooth skating Lukas Krajicek, and a pretty good prospect in Luc Bourdon. They have further defensive prospect depth with tough, stay at home D Nathan McIver, and young Taylor Ellington, and even an outside shot for developing pro Shaun Heshka. There aren’t many teams that have equivalent prospect depth on defence – Chicago, Dallas, Edmonton, Nashville, San Jose, and maybe Washington.

In goal, the Canucks have an outstanding goaltending prospect with Cory Schneider. Big, but athletic, and with a calm demeanour, he stacks up against any other team’s top prospect. The Canucks also have 24 year old Drew MacIntyre, who has excelled in the AHL, making the All-Star team this season.

So it is at forward where it is apparent that “the cupboard is not stocked”. Good luck Mike Gillis!

Check out all of the other teams young talent:

Anaheim
Forwards: Ryan Getzlaf 22, Corey Perry 22, Ryan Carter 24 (Brian Sutherby 26, Bobby Ryan 21, Logan MacMillan 18, Eric Tangradi 19)
Defense: Francois Beauchemin 27, Marc-Andre Bergeron 27 (Mark Mitera 20, Brendan Mikkelson 20, Brian Salcido 23)
Goalie: Jonas Hiller 26 (Jean-Phillippe Levasseur 21)

Atlanta
Forwards: Ilya Kovalchuk 25, Bryan Little 20, Colby Armstrong 25 (Erik Christensen 24, Angelo Esposito 19, Riley Holzapfel 19)
Defense: Tobias Enstrom 23, Garnet Exelby 26 (Boris Valabik 22)
Goalie: Kari Lehtonen 24 (Ondrej Pavelec 20)

Boston
Forwards: Patrice Bergeron 22, Phil Kessel 20, David Krejci 21 (Petteri Nokelainen 22, Milan Lucic 19, Zach Hamill 19, Vladimir Sobotka 20, Carl Soderberg 22)
Defense: Mark Stuart 23, Dennis Wideman 25 (Matt Lashoff 21, Adam McQuaid 21, Matt Hunwick 22)
Goalie: Tuukka Rask 21

Buffalo
Forwards: Thomas Vanek 24, Jason Pominville 25, Drew Stafford 22 (Derek Roy 24, Steve Bernier 23, Tim Connolly 26, Paul Gaustad 26, Dan Paille 24)
Defense: Dmitri Kalinin 27, Nathan Paetsch 25 (Andrej Sekera 21, Mike Weber 20, Michael Funk 21)
Goalie: Ryan Miller 27 (Jhonas Enroth 19)

Calgary
Forwards : Matthew Lombardi 26, Dustin Boyd 21, David Moss 24 (Mikael Backlund 19, Erik Nystrom 25, David van der Gulik 25, Kris Chucko 22, Brett Sutter 20)
Defense: Dion Phaneuf 23, Mark Giordano 25 (Adam Pardy 23, Tim Ramholt 23, Matt Pelech 20, John Negrin 19)
Goalie: Curtis McElhinney 24 (Matt Keetley 21, Leland Irving 20)

Carolina
Forwards: Eric Staal 23, Justin Williams 26, Tuomo Ruutu 25 (Patrick Eaves 23, Brandon Sutter 19, Drayson Bowman 19, Bobby Hughes 20)
Defense: Tim Gleason 25, Dennis Seidenberg 26 (David Tanabe 27, Jamie McBain 20, Casey Borer 22, Brett Carson 22)
Goalie: Cam Ward 24 (Justin Peters 21)

Chicago
Forwards: Jonathan Toews 19, Patrick Kane 19, Martin Havlat 27 (Patrick Sharp 26, Andrew Ladd 22, Ben Eager 24, Dave Bolland 21, Jack Skille 20, Bill Sweatt 19, Adam Berti 21, Troy Brouwer 22, Bryan Bickell 22, Michael Blunden 21)
Defense: Brent Seabrook 23, Duncan Keith 24 (James Wisniewski 24, Cam Barker 22, Dustin Byfuglien 23)
Goalie: Corey Crawford 23

Colorado
Forwards: Paul Stastny 22, Marek Svatos 25, Wojtek Wolski 22 (David Jones 23, TJ Hensick 22, Chris Stewart 20, TJ Galiardi 20, Ryan Stoa 21, Codey Burki 20)
Defense: Jordan Leopold 27, John-Michael Liles 27 (Kyle Cumiskey 21, Kevin Shattenkirk 19, Nigel Williams 21)
Goalie: Peter Budaj 25 (Jason Bacashihua 25)

Columbus
Forwards: Rick Nash 23, Nikolai Zherdev 23, Dan Fritsche 22 (Jiri Novotny 24, Manny Malhotra 27, Gilbert Brule 21, Derik Brassard 20, Jakub Voracek 18, Joakim Lindstrom 24, Alexandre Picard 22, Tom Sestito 20, Stefan Legein 19, Adam Pineault 21)
Defense: Rostislav Klesla 26, Ron Hainsey 27 (Kris Russell 20, Ole-Kristian Tollefsen 24, Aaron Rome 24, Mark Methot 22)
Goalie: Pascal LeClaire 25 (Steve Mason 19)

Dallas
Forwards: Brad Richards 27, Loui Eriksson 22, Joel Lundqvist 26 (Steve Ott 25, James Neal 20, Konstantin Pushkarev 23, Chris Conner 24, Marty Sertich 25)
Defense: Trevor Daley 24, Matt Niskanen 21 (Mark Fistric 21, Ivan Vishnevskiy 20, Nicklas Grossman 23)
Goalie: Tobias Stephan 24 (Richard Bachman 20)

Detroit
Forwards: Henrik Zetterberg 27, Jiri Hudler 24, Valtteri Filppula 24 (Johan Franzen 28, Tomas Kopecky 26, Justin Abdelkader 21, Cory Emmerton 19, Igor Grigorenko 25, Johan Ryno 21, Jan Mursak 20)
Defense: Niklas Kronwall 27, Brett Lebda 26 (Kyle Quincey 22, Derek Meech 24, Jakub Kindl 21, Brendan Smith 19)
Goalie: Jimmy Howard 24

Edmonton
Forwards: Ales Hemsky 24, Sam Gagner 18, Andrew Cogliano 20 (Dustin Penner 25, Jarret Stoll 25, Raffi Torres 26, Robert Nilsson 23, Marc Pouliot 22, Kyle Brodziak 23, Zach Stortini 22, Curtis Glencross 25, Jean-Francois Jacques 22, Ryan O’Marra 20, Rob Schremp 21, Riley Nash 18, Chris Vande Velde 21)
Defense: Tom Gilbert 25, Joni Pitkanen 24 (Denis Grebeshkov 24, Matt Greene 24, Ladislav Smid 22, Mathieu Roy 24, Jeff Petry 20, Taylor Chorney 20, Alex Plante 18)
Goalie: Jeff Drouin-Deslauriers 23 (Devan Dubnyk 21)

Florida
Forwards: Nathan Horton 22, Stephen Weiss 25, Rostislav Olesz 22 (David Booth 23, Kamil Kreps 23, Shawn Matthias 20, Michael Frolik 20, Gregory Campbell 24, Kenndal McArdle 21, Stefan Meyer 22, Michal Repik 19, Anthony Stewart 23)
Defense: Jay Bouwmeester 24, Bryan Allen 27 (Branislav Mezei 27, Noah Welch 25, Keaton Ellerby 21)
Goalie: Craig Anderson 26 (Tyler Plante 21)

Los Angeles
Forwards: Anze Kopitar 20, Alexander Frolov 25, Dustin Brown 23 (Michael Cammalleri 25, Patrick O’Sullivan 23, Brian Boyle 23, Lauri Tukonen 21, Ted Purcell 22, Trevor Lewis 21, Oscar Moller 19, Wayne Simmonds 19)
Defense: Jack Johnson 21, Kevin Dallman 27 (Peter Harrold 24, Thomas Hickey 19, Patrik Hersley 22)
Goalie: Erik Ersberg 26 (Jonathan Bernier 19)

Minnesota
Forwards: Marian Gaborik 26, Mikko Koivu 25, Pierre-Marc Bouchard 23 (Branko Radivojevic 27, Benoit Pouliot 21, James Sheppard 19, Petr Kalus 20, Colton Gillies 19, Danny Irmen 23)
Defense: Brent Burns 23, Nick Schultz 25 (Kurtis Foster 26, Shawn Belle 23, Clayton Stoner 23)
Goalie: Josh Harding 23

Montreal
Forwards: Andrei Kostitsyn 23, Christopher Higgins 24, Tomas Plekanec 25 (Kyle Chipchura 22, Sergei Kostitsyn 21, Guillaume Latendresse 20, Ben Maxwell 20, Maxim LaPierre 23)
Defense: Mike Komisarek 26, Josh Gorges 23 (Mathieu Carle 20)
Goalie: Carey Price 20 (Jaroslav Halak 22, Yann Danis 26)

Nashville
Forwards: David Legwand 27, Martin Erat 26, Alexander Radulov 21 (Brandon Bochenski 26, Jordin Tootoo 25, Patric Hornqvist 21, Cal O’Reilly 21, Mike Santorelli 22)
Defense: Dan Hamhuis 25, Shea Weber 22 (Ryan Suter 23, Kevin Klein 23, Ville Koistinen 25, Cody Franson 20, Jon Blum 19)
Goalie: Dan Ellis 27 (Pekka Rinne 25)

New Jersey
Forwards: Zach Parise 23, Travis Zajac 22, David Clarkson 24 (Nicklas Bergfors 21, Petr Vrana 23, Nick Palmieri 18, Alexander Vasyunov 20)
Defense: Johnny Oduya 26, Paul Martin 27 (Andy Greene 25, Matt Corrente 20, Kirill Tulupov 20)
Goalie: Jeff Frazee 20

New York Islanders
Forwards: Trent Hunter 27, Mike Comrie 27, Sean Bergenheim 24 (Kyle Okposo 20, Blake Comeau 22)
Defense: Chris Campoli 23, Bruno Gervais 23 (Aaron Johnson 24, Dustin Kohn 21)
Goalie: Rick DiPietro 26

New York Rangers
Forwards: Nigel Dawes 23, Brandon Dubinsky 21, Fredrik Sjostrom 24 (Peter Prucha 25, Ryan Callahan 23, Alexei Cherepanov 19)
Defense: Marc Staal 21, Fedor Tyutin 24 (Christian Backman 27, Daniel Girardi 23, Bobby Sanguinetti 20, Michael Sauer 21, Ivan Baranka 22)
Goalie: Henrik Lunqvist 26 (David Leneveu 24)

Ottawa
Forwards: Dany Heatley 27, Mike Fisher 27, Jason Spezza 24 (Antoine Vermette 25, Nick Foligno 20, Alexander Nikulin 22, Cody Bass 21, Ilya Zubov 21, Kaspars Daugavins 19, Josh Hennessy 23, Jim O’Brien 19)
Defense: Andrej Meszaros 22, Anton Volchenkov 26 (Cristoph Schubert 26, Brian Lee 21)
Goalie: Brian Elliott 23 (Jeff Glass 22)

Philadelphia
Forwards: Mike Richards 23, Jeff Carter 23, Scott Hartnell 26 (RJ Umberger 25, Joffrey Lupul 24, Scottie Upshall 24, Claude Giroux 20, Steve Downie 21, James van Riemsdyk 18)
Defense: Braydon Coburn 23, Ryan Parent 21 (Randy Jones 26, Lasse Kukkonen 26, Michael Ratchuk 20, Oskars Bartulis 21)
Goalie: (Scott Munroe 26)

Phoenix
Forwards: Peter Mueller 20, Martin Hanzal 21, Kyle Turris 18 (Radim Vrbata 26, Marcel Hossa 26, Joel Perrault 25, Daniel Winnik 23, Blake Wheeler 21, Kevin Porter 22, Enver Lisin 22)
Defense: Keith Ballard 23, Zbynek Michalek 25 (Matt Jones 24, Keith Yandle 21, Chris Summers 20)
Goalie: Ilya Bryzgalov 27 (Al Montoya 23)

Pittsburgh
Forwards: Sidney Crosby 20, Evgeni Malkin 21, Jordan Staal 19 (Tyler Kennedy 21, Jonathan Filewich 23, Ryan Stone 23)
Defense: Ryan Whitney 25, Kris Letang 20 (Alex Goligoski 22, Carl Sneep 20)
Goalie: Marc-Andre Fleury 23 (David Brown 23)

San Jose
Forwards: Milan Michalek 23, Joe Pavelski 23, Jonathan Cheechoo 27 (Ryan Clowe 25, Torrey Mitchell 23, Marcel Goc 24, Devin Setoguchi 21, Logan Couture 19, Jamie McGinn 19)
Defense: Christian Ehrhoff 25, Marc-Edouard Vlasic 21 (Matt Carle 23, Douglas Murray 28, Ty Wishart 19, Nick Petrecki 18, Dan Spang 24)
Goalie: Thomas Greiss 22 (Tyson Sexsmith 19)

St. Louis
Forwards: Brad Boyes 26, Lee Stempniak 25, David Backes 23 (David Perron 19, Jay McClement 25, TJ Oshie 21, Patrik Berglund 19, Lars Eller 18)
Defense: Barret Jackman 27, Erik Johnson 20 (Jeff Woywitka 24, Ian Cole 19)
Goalie: Marek Schwarz 22 (Hannu Toivonen 23)

Tampa Bay
Forwards: Jussi Jokinen 25, Michel Ouellet 26, Nick Tarnasky 25 (Dana Tyrell 19, Blair Jones 21, Luca Cunti 18)
Defense: Shane O’Brien 24, Paul Ranger 23 (Alexandre Picard 22, Matt Smaby 23, Mike Lundin 23, Vladimir Mihalik 21, Andy Rogers 21)
Goalie: Mike Smith 26 (Karri Ramo 21, Riku Helenius 20)

Toronto
Forwards: Alexander Steen 24, Matt Stajan 24, Kyle Wellwood 24 (Jiri Tlusty 20, Dominic Moore 27, Mark Bell 27, Nikolai Kulemin 21, Robbie Earl 23)
Defense: Staffan Kronwall 25, Carlo Colaiacovo 25 (Ian White 23, Anton Stralman 21, Dmitri Vorobiev 22)
Goalie: Andrew Raycroft 27 (Justin Pogge 22)

Vancouver
Forwards: Ryan Kesler 23, Taylor Pyatt 26, Mason Raymond 22 (Alex Burrows 27, Ryan Shannon 25, Mike Brown 22, Michael Grabner 20, Jannik Hansen 22, Patrick White 19, Jason Jaffray 26, Rick Rypien 23, Dan Gendur 20)
Defense: Kevin Bieksa 26, Alex Edler 22 (Luc Bourdon 21, Lukas Krajicek 25, Nathan McIver 23, Shaun Heshka 22, Taylor Ellington 19)
Goalie: Cory Schneider 22 (Drew MacIntyre 24)

Washington
Forwards: Alexander Ovechkin 22, Nicklas Backstrom 20, Alexander Semin 24 (Brooks Laich 24, Eric Fehr 22, Boyd Gordon 24, Tomas Fleischmann 23, Dave Steckel 26, Francois Bouchard 19, Jakub Klepis 23)
Defense: Mike Green 22, Steve Eminger 24 (Shaone Morrisonn 25, Milan Jurcina 24, John Erskine 27, Jeff Schultz 22, Karl Alzner 19, Keith Seabrook 19, Sasha Pokulok 21)
Goalie: Semen Varlamov 19 (Michal Neuvirth 20)

This post has been edited by Southern_Canuck: Apr 23 2008, 12:29 PM

[themedic]

Unreal breakdown and analysis there S_C. Good read.

I had to go with Pittsburgh, I suppose some think it's a no-brainer, but Washington's young talent showed their chops here in the latter part of the season and last 4 games of round 1. Ovechkin proved that he is hands down the best individual player in the NHL.....the only other guy that comes close is Iginla, but Jerome lacks the same degree of natural talent and flare that Ovechkin possesses.

Anaheim's young player's all possess a combination of grit, hustle, skill, and smarts. And Chicago certainly seems to have a bright future.

But the top 3 of Crosby, Malkin, and Staal certainly stands out from the rest, add Whitney on the blueline, and if Fleury can ever turn himself into the goaltender he was supposed to be they have an amazing core.....the question is: Can they keep them all under a cap system?

This post has been edited by themedic: Apr 23 2008, 11:41 AM

[Spock]

SC -

That was one hellova list of players......and I think your idea to use just age as the determinant was a good one. The best NHL players (particularly forwards) are already playing most nights in the league at age 21.

The Canucks have a rather pathetic set of young forwards, they really do. The cupboard is pretty damn bare. I am not sold on Mason Raymond yet, and we have yet to get a sniff of Grabner. One also really wonders what Hansen can do - I mean the team was starving for offensive talent, yet Hansen didn't get a shot. Ryan Shannon? The Canucks seem determined to find a midget who can score - I mean between Brandon Reid, Steve Kariya, now Shannon? What is it with the Canucks fascination with small soft players? At 25, I think it is safe to say that Ryan Shannon will never be an every night NHL player except on a bottom dwelling team. Pat White - havent got a sniff of him either. Ditto Gendur.

Canucks record of drafting is historically absolutely abysmal and frightening. Things seems to be better now than they were from '87 - '02....but I am still waiting for the Canucks to be the team that get the 6th round Zetterberg-type player.......

Not holding my breath.


Spock Out

[Kesler1988]

I hate to nit pick because my argument does not negate the validity of your post but as a Rangers fan I have to protest just a bit. If you've watched them in the playoffs (which I'm sure you have), it is pretty hard to say that their young group of Callahan, Dubinsky, Dawes, and Staal are not key members of a potential Stanley Cup contender. That alone should place them ahead of our Canucks prospects. Albeit they are not potential Calder winners but they seem to contribute at a higher level than Raymond, Shannon, Kesler, Bourdon etc...

That being said, it is also true that the reason why the Rangers are a better team could simply be that their veteran players could rock our veteran players (see Naslund, Sedin, Sedin vs Jagr, Drury, Gomez, Shannahan, Avery etc...). And now I'm rambling. Hey, if you combined the Canucks Dmen with the Rangers offense and kept both starting goaltenders you'd have one Bad Mamajama of a team... with twice the cap as any other team.

Speaking of Rangers prospects, what is the word on Cherepanov (Sp?)? I thought he would be huge in the next few years, but all that seems pretty quiet now.

Umm... well I'm lost, good post though, sorry I killed your thread!

[aaronp18]

Depth wise Edmonton and Chicago look great.

Chicago needs a tender .... hmmmm

As far as young talent and high end skill goes Pittsburgh and Washington look the best for obvious reasons but both look pretty thin after their top tier talent.

Atlanta looks like they are in a heap of trouble outside of Kovalchuk. That guy is going to want out of there.

I also like a lot of Buffalo's forwards and they look thin on the back-end .... another hmmmm

Yeah I see a whole lot of young talent I wish we had!

This post has been edited by aaronp18: Apr 23 2008, 11:51 AM

[Southern_Canuck]

I forgot to mention one thing that was hard to miss --- Philadelphia does not have any decent goalie prospects! So cue the Schneider for Hartnell or Carter rumours!

For Kesler1988, I ranked the Canucks higher than the Rangers because of young defence and goaltending - clearly NYR has better forward prospects (Kesler evens it out a bit), but in the defense and goaltending categories, Vancouver is way ahead.

S_C

[DrPangloss]

No question the Canucks need some standout young forwards. They have an opportunity to begin to address this with this 10th overall pick, but they need to look at moving a young defender for a young forward.

[New York]

I have to give it a tie between Pittsburgh and Washington almost solely based on the fact they have guys named Crosby and Ovechkin which trump any other young talent in the league.

This is truly an excellent post as all we kept hearing was the farm has been restocked and while it is better than it has been, that's not saying a whole lot. I think if Grabner is the real deal we move up on your rankings, everybody else who has been with the team for at least 10 games has seem to have found their level save for Bourdon and Raymond who I believe are going to get better the more they play.

[Mr.Miyagi]

Great Post S_C!!!

I actually thought of breaking this down in a thread one day, but you've gone above and beyond what I would have done! I know you follow prospects closely, and I fully agree. Our cupboard is not so stocked.
Blame scouting and drafting for that.

I went a little off the map and may have voted a little early, but I voted for Philly. Their defense and goaltending isn't very strong, but their talent pool at forward is deep. There are alot of assets in there. They could always use a couple to trade for some D or a netminder.

Carter, Richards, Hartnell, Umberger, Upshall and Lupul are proven NHLr's that can play big minutes and handle the pressure. The Van Riemsdyk kid is a couple years away, but a shoe-in for the big leagues.
Also, as much as I don't like Steve Downie, I would consider him an asset.

On D, I was surprised to see Braydon Coburn was only 23. He plays like a seasoned veteran. Behind that though, they are pretty weak on the back end and between the pipes.

All of those guys are valueable assets to have or to trade.

EDIT: I've also heard great things about Parent, but have not seen enough of him to make an assumption.

This post has been edited by Mr.Miyagi: Apr 23 2008, 12:08 PM

[O_D_B]

The Cupboard is Not Stocked:

With some people claiming that “Nonis left the prospect cupboard stocked”, I decided to have an in-depth look at Vancouver’s prospects vs. the rest of the league.

The news was not good.


So it is at forward where it is apparent that “the cupboard is not stocked”. Good luck Mike Gillis!

Hey - a poll on whether Nonis should be fired! Did I accidentally log in to CDC... no?

Oh, it's on CanucksCentral - how fun!

Well, the answer is no - a couple of losses in one season doesn't make or break a franchise. The Canucks have a decent amount of talented youth, and a solid, veteran defence including goaltending.

It is a brand new world in the offseason, and Nonis has earned the right to make the decisions, IMO.

S_C

First of all, great post SC. I appreciate the time and effort that must have gone into it.

Having said that I wish I knew where you officially stand on things. A month ago you jumped down my throat for suggesting it was time for Nonis to go. At the time you said the Canucks have a decent amount of talented youth. Today Gillis says this franchise needs to improve its armature and pro scouting and you no longer agree with your own assessment.

[Grifter420]

San Jose as well has an unreal amount of talented youth.

However, you left out the New York Rangers

Goal:
Lundqvist (26)

Forwards:
Avery (27), Betts (27), Callahan (23), Dawes (23), Dubinsky (21), Prucha (25), Sjostrom (24),

Defense:
Backman (27), Girardi (23), Staal (21), Tyutin (24)


With the exception of Petr Prucha, every single one of these players has been a steady NHL performer this year, including the playoffs.
With the exception of Lundqvist and Staal there isn't a lot of superstar potential, but there are quality role players.

This post has been edited by Grifter420: Apr 23 2008, 12:11 PM

[Southern_Canuck]

Having said that I wish I knew where you officially stand on things. A month ago you jumped down my throat for suggesting it was time for Nonis to go. At the time you said the Canucks have a decent amount of talented youth. Today Gillis says this franchise needs to improve its armature and pro scouting and you no longer agree with your own assessment.

Yeah, I did say a decent amount of talented youth. So here is where I stand:

1) I was not in favour of firing Nonis - I thought he should be given a chance to spend the money and make the trades this summer.
2) The Canucks do have "a decent amount of talented youth" - it's just that they are mostly defencemen and goalies.
3) When I took the time to carefully look at what other teams had, I found that the Canucks' prospects didn't stack up too well against most of the other teams - lots of teams have great forward prospects - thus this thread was born!

S_C

[bandwagon]

good work sc.

It all kind of makes you wonder what Gillis will have to work with. You need assets to bring in assets. Unless we plan on trading luongo which is not gonna happen, then what can you trade to acquire some good talent. I think things havnt changed much. Bieksa, Krajicek and the fa market. If we want more grit and speed (which is what Gillis said) then you have to hope hes relying on his connections to bring those free agents in. If he gives up guys like edler and bourdon then he kind of contradicts himself because of his comments of "players pushing others from beneath, which i took to mean the good young talent (what there is of it)in the organization. Drafting good if changed immediately will still take a while and hes wanting to put together a winner now now now.
It all makes me wonder what he can do any different than Nonis in the short term.
In the long term, getting a better scouting staff will certainly help.
Im pretty dissapointed to actually look at your post and come to the realization that were in a poor position with our youth

[donlever]

3) When I took the time to carefully look at what other teams had, I found that the Canucks' prospects didn't stack up too well against most of the other teams - lots of teams have great forward prospects - thus this thread was born!

S_C

...and again I will say, not in defense of Nonis btw but just as a commentary on our youth....

Brian Burke deals of our draft picks

TWO FIRSTS (COUNTING UMBERGER)

FIVE SECONDS

TWO THIRDS

This post has been edited by donlever: Apr 23 2008, 12:26 PM

[Southern_Canuck]

However, you left out the New York Rangers

Goal: Lundqvist (26)
Forwards: Avery (27), Betts (27), Callahan (23), Dawes (23), Dubinsky (21), Prucha (25), Sjostrom (24),
Defense: Backman (27), Girardi (23), Staal (21), Tyutin (24)

With the exception of Petr Prucha, every single one of these players has been a steady NHL performer this year, including the playoffs.
With the exception of Lundqvist and Staal there isn't a lot of superstar potential, but there are quality role players.

Ooooops - for some reason I had Lundqvist as being 28...!

Yeah, I could've included Avery, Betts, Backman, and Girardi --- but my version of their young core would still be:

Dawes, Dubinsky, Sjostrom, Staal, Tyutin, Lundqvist.

Changing LeNeveu for Lundqvist improves that list a lot!

S_C

This post has been edited by Southern_Canuck: Apr 23 2008, 12:32 PM